Inside NYC’s Push for Building Circularity
In honor of Zero Waste Week, join Jennifer Taranto, VP of Sustainability at STO Building Group (STOBG), Ryan Hughes, Sustainability Manager at Structure Tone New York, and Tiffany Williams, Sustainability Manager at Rudin, as they explore how selective deconstruction, material recovery, and take-back programs are transforming NYC construction.
HOST
Jennifer Taranto
Vice President of SustainabilitySTO Building Group (STOBG)
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GUEST
Ryan Hughes
Sustainability ManagerStructure Tone New York
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GUEST
Tiffany Williams
Sustainability ManagerRudin
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Jennifer Taranto (00:25Go to https://www.temi.com/editor/t/G_csfCCgpvHlvEQWgbi4k8kQqsPrFV0iEpRLGtAr9FGatQUJUt2kH2FefW4b4vY0-20lHTVJ-dr7iOuKLbO5LN8p-WE?loadFrom=DocumentDeeplink):
Hi, and welcome to Building Conversations. I’m your host, Jennifer Taranto, Vice President of Sustainability at STO Building Group (STOBG). And today we’re talking about material circularity in New York City. I’m joined by Ryan Hughes, Sustainability Manager at Structure Town New York, and Tiffany Williams, Sustainability Manager at Rudin, to talk about how we’re working together to reduce waste, recover materials and make circularity a core part of the building process. Let’s jump in. So Ryan, what would you say is New York City’s deconstruction program or the initiatives and support that they have around deconstruction and how’s it shifting the way that we approach building renovations and developments?
So, New York City’s deconstruction program is really an emerging initiative, and it’s really aimed at rethinking end of life phase for building. So it’s flipping like the way that we approach renovation instead of the traditional approach where everything’s demolished, sent to landfill, it’s about carefully dismantling buildings to recover valuable materials for reuse and for recycling. So it’s really a smarter, more sustainable approach, and it’s helping to turn job sites into resource recovery sites.
Jennifer Taranto (01:37Go to https://www.temi.com/editor/t/G_csfCCgpvHlvEQWgbi4k8kQqsPrFV0iEpRLGtAr9FGatQUJUt2kH2FefW4b4vY0-20lHTVJ-dr7iOuKLbO5LN8p-WE?loadFrom=DocumentDeeplink):
Yeah, that’s awesome. It sounds like a real game changer there in New York City and very progressive of them to have put a program in place. Just to start to by frame the conversation for others can you also define for us, like how does deconstruction differ from traditional demolition?
The difference is intention. So traditional demo or demolition is focused on speed and removal, but basically out with the old, and let’s get ready for the new. Deconstruction’s more about strategic tactical or maybe surgical. So it’s about identifying, removing, and preserving value of materials for reuse.
Jennifer Taranto (02:17Go to https://www.temi.com/editor/t/G_csfCCgpvHlvEQWgbi4k8kQqsPrFV0iEpRLGtAr9FGatQUJUt2kH2FefW4b4vY0-20lHTVJ-dr7iOuKLbO5LN8p-WE?loadFrom=DocumentDeeplink):
Yeah. Tiffany, anything you want to add to that for the listeners?
Tiffany Williams (02:21Go to https://www.temi.com/editor/t/G_csfCCgpvHlvEQWgbi4k8kQqsPrFV0iEpRLGtAr9FGatQUJUt2kH2FefW4b4vY0-20lHTVJ-dr7iOuKLbO5LN8p-WE?loadFrom=DocumentDeeplink):
Yeah, so just to piggyback off of that, I know right now we’re really focusing on deconstruction within like our office portfolio and just understanding what, what are a lot of those typical materials that are in those space? What is recoverable? What can we reuse? And so like office furniture, the existing millwork looking at carpet and ceiling tile. Also too, trying to understand like the glass throughout the space. So we’re looking at the interior spaces like, which are like storefront systems or office front systems, as well as like the exterior glazing of the envelope. There’s also opportunities with like doors, salvaging doors, or recycling doors, both back of house, like the hollow metal doors and even those throughout the space, like the solid wood doors. And then like any lighting, sconces, fixtures, and things like that. Like on the smaller scale as well.
Jennifer Taranto (03:12Go to https://www.temi.com/editor/t/G_csfCCgpvHlvEQWgbi4k8kQqsPrFV0iEpRLGtAr9FGatQUJUt2kH2FefW4b4vY0-20lHTVJ-dr7iOuKLbO5LN8p-WE?loadFrom=DocumentDeeplink):
Yeah, that’s really helpful to help kind of understand what types of materials we can look at that are recoverable and even better reusable. I mean the other piece of the puzzle too, not to forget about when you’re, when you’re repositioning or changing the use of a building type, for example there are going to be a lot of infrastructure components, right, Tiffany?
Tiffany Williams (03:38Go to https://www.temi.com/editor/t/G_csfCCgpvHlvEQWgbi4k8kQqsPrFV0iEpRLGtAr9FGatQUJUt2kH2FefW4b4vY0-20lHTVJ-dr7iOuKLbO5LN8p-WE?loadFrom=DocumentDeeplink):
Oh, Absolutely. And that’s what’s so exciting about this. So, you know, for a lot of the different rating systems and such, like, we will reward you for reusing like the actual building envelope. So it’s like, what can you do beyond that? And we have such a great opportunity coming up where we’re partnering with Pavarini McGovernGo to https://stobuildinggroup.com/pavarini-mcgovern/, and we’re actually doing what we call selective deconstruction. So it’s very similar, it’s just not as broad as looking at every single material stream, but really honing in on what material has the most like volume within the space that we can recover. And what’s so exciting about this is like, this is Rudin’s first time really delving into deconstruction as like a full practice. So there’s a lot that we’re going to learn from this process. And we’re very excited to be, you know, embarking on this endeavor in partnership with them.
Jennifer Taranto (04:27Go to https://www.temi.com/editor/t/G_csfCCgpvHlvEQWgbi4k8kQqsPrFV0iEpRLGtAr9FGatQUJUt2kH2FefW4b4vY0-20lHTVJ-dr7iOuKLbO5LN8p-WE?loadFrom=DocumentDeeplink):
Yeah. So that sort of leads us right into the next question, which was like, thinking about a recent project that incorporated these demolition practices. Can we kind of unpack a little bit more? Like what does that collaboration between STO Building Group (STOBG), Pavarini McGovernGo to https://stobuildinggroup.com/pavarini-mcgovern/ and RudinGo to https://www.rudin.com/ really look like on that job? So can you walk us through some of the steps that we’ve taken and where we hope to go?
Tiffany Williams (04:49Go to https://www.temi.com/editor/t/G_csfCCgpvHlvEQWgbi4k8kQqsPrFV0iEpRLGtAr9FGatQUJUt2kH2FefW4b4vY0-20lHTVJ-dr7iOuKLbO5LN8p-WE?loadFrom=DocumentDeeplink):
Yeah, absolutely. So of course we need to know what’s there. We need to understand what’s there. So we kicked it off with, once we’ve identified like all the stakeholders and participants, we did like a survey, a site survey, literally top to bottom and just looked at all the different materials, tried to figure out which vendors, essentially the materials belonged to and then we are fortunate to have sustainability consultants help us with these projects. And so they’re actually helping us to organize and coalesce all of that data, create a game plan of, you know like what’s the lead time essentially of actually having these vendors come and either assess their materials onsite themselves or like what does it take for them to actually receive the materials back? Because there’s a lot of logistics that go into those particular programs. Like certain vendors want their materials packaged a certain way when they want to receive them back to reduce any use of like contamination through that sort of demolition process.
Tiffany Williams (05:47Go to https://www.temi.com/editor/t/G_csfCCgpvHlvEQWgbi4k8kQqsPrFV0iEpRLGtAr9FGatQUJUt2kH2FefW4b4vY0-20lHTVJ-dr7iOuKLbO5LN8p-WE?loadFrom=DocumentDeeplink):
And then sometimes they just have like a long lead time. Because you know, we’ve only done this on like a very minor scale, like we’ve done some small office fit outs, but when you’re thinking about a full building that we’re trying to reclaim these materials, it’s like, does the vendor actually have capacity to take that much in that much volume in? And which may require a lot of lead time for them because they may need like staging or someplace to be able to keep those materials essentially before they can find like a new home for them. So there’s like a lot that goes into it but having this game plan that the sustainability consultants helping us to develop is important. Because we get this information into the bid package, the demolition bid package, which is key. Because that’s like the best opportunity to get like the best pricing. You know, we don’t want to miss kind of the mark on that end and to just help educate like the subs and stuff when they’re bidding on the project.
Jennifer Taranto (06:38Go to https://www.temi.com/editor/t/G_csfCCgpvHlvEQWgbi4k8kQqsPrFV0iEpRLGtAr9FGatQUJUt2kH2FefW4b4vY0-20lHTVJ-dr7iOuKLbO5LN8p-WE?loadFrom=DocumentDeeplink):
Yeah, I would say from my experience that has been a big game changer is working the reuse and salvage and take back program elements into the contract documents. There have been many projects, sort of, you kind of hint at it like on the smaller scale that we, that we’ve done in the past. And oftentimes the desire comes from the client sort of as a wish list scenario but isn’t fully incorporated into the drawings. And I would say that my experiences is that we never get the full throated like ability to capture all of the materials in the way that we would really like to the cost benefit of the client, right? Because we’re trying to do the best within the systems that that exist. And the reality is, is sometimes you may have to pay a little bit more in order to in order to take advantage of salvaging some materials, right?
Tiffany Williams (07:31Go to https://www.temi.com/editor/t/G_csfCCgpvHlvEQWgbi4k8kQqsPrFV0iEpRLGtAr9FGatQUJUt2kH2FefW4b4vY0-20lHTVJ-dr7iOuKLbO5LN8p-WE?loadFrom=DocumentDeeplink):
Agree. Absolutely.
Yeah. I think the environmental and social benefits far outweigh the extra coordination requires, but a little more time upfront. But you get a higher value outcome. And significantly reduces waste, right?
Tiffany Williams (07:43Go to https://www.temi.com/editor/t/G_csfCCgpvHlvEQWgbi4k8kQqsPrFV0iEpRLGtAr9FGatQUJUt2kH2FefW4b4vY0-20lHTVJ-dr7iOuKLbO5LN8p-WE?loadFrom=DocumentDeeplink):
Agreed. Yeah. So we’ve been seeing just the joys of understanding, like this material went back to the manufacturer, they’re able to remake it back into a product that we can then buy back on the project. So it just really helps to reinforce sort of the circular economy we’re trying to create.
Jennifer Taranto (08:00Go to https://www.temi.com/editor/t/G_csfCCgpvHlvEQWgbi4k8kQqsPrFV0iEpRLGtAr9FGatQUJUt2kH2FefW4b4vY0-20lHTVJ-dr7iOuKLbO5LN8p-WE?loadFrom=DocumentDeeplink):
Yeah. And I would say I had the pleasure of being involved in that pre-demo salvage assessment that we did when we walked through the building and literally peeling up, you know, floor tiles and seeing who the manufacturer was and then like pulling down ceiling tiles in order to try to see who that manufacturer was. And when you’ve got a multi-tenanted building like that, you could be dealing with multiple manufacturers across the full spectrum of all the materials, right? So that plan that the sustainability consultants put in place is going to be super critical. I think another thing that requires a lot of planning is the logistics and the storage and the transportation of those materials and how that gets managed both during the deconstruction of the project and then sometimes even when we’re trying to do salvage or site separation during project, during the construction phase of the project. So Ryan, you want to talk a little bit about some of the experience that you’ve had there?
Sure. Logistics can be tricky. Urban job sites are tight. So we’ve found that staging areas need to be clearly defined. Signage on our dumpsters and collection bins need to be in place. And material labeling is critical for inventory right management there. We work with partners who can store offsite sometimes until the end of use markets can be identified, but that’s always a challenge. But in that scenario, when material’s ready for use, resale, or donation, it is possible. But one lesson learned, I’d say is budget more time in the schedule for the process. Salvaging does take, as we said, a little longer than demo, but the value financially and environmentally is worth it. So if you plan the logistics the same way you plan, say steel delivery you know, I know that’s after talking with a friend of mine in that business, it’s pretty much, you know, equable there.
So essentially early planning, integrating salvage goals into the project schedule, that’s key. A few projects where we’ve had some success. One of our major tech clients at St. John’s Terminal, we have integrated some circular practices on the job site where we focused on closed loop drywall recycling. We staged our mini dumpsters on site with some labeling there for the source separated drywall, trim scrap in an area that wouldn’t really affect the build out, which is a challenge sometimes in a dense urban environment here. But we had a critical mass in place. We called the hauler, loaded the truck until it was full, and then from there sorted the waste the waste that was sorted, it was brought to our trusted transfer facility, Cooper Recycling, and then brought to the back to the manufacturer of certainty in this instance where, you know, we use that recovered asset as a material feed stock to create new product for them. And the same goes for a carpet take back, which we’ve used partners like Shaw in our own office for the carpet tile that you said, Jen here, it’s been stripped out of our New York office and then use this feedstock. So they’ve taken that from, from us there. Many other tech clients really care about this and that have a vested interest.
Jennifer Taranto (10:57Go to https://www.temi.com/editor/t/G_csfCCgpvHlvEQWgbi4k8kQqsPrFV0iEpRLGtAr9FGatQUJUt2kH2FefW4b4vY0-20lHTVJ-dr7iOuKLbO5LN8p-WE?loadFrom=DocumentDeeplink):
Yeah, I, and we’re seeing that interest to broaden to multiple sectors now. I think I want to just take a step back a little bit. We talked about the importance of getting the specifications in the early bid phases of the drawings. We, you know, we’ve talked a little bit about the logistics, but that coordination piece, I want to kind of like just double click on that because I think it’s such a big piece. There’s so many different stakeholders that are involved. We’ve got the contractors; in some cases there may be city agencies that get involved. We’ve got salvage partners. Can you talk a little bit more about like how do you get to a successful end product with so many stakeholders involved?
Coordination’s everything, right? First, we need, as you said, buy-in from the client and then design team. And then we conduct that detailed salvage assessment prior to demolition. From then on, we can loop in the salvage partners and they should be involved very early on to evaluate the materials, the plan for the transportation, ensure the proper handling, oftentimes making sure insurance is in place. That could be a challenge. But what’s equally important is working with these trusted salvager and their networks. So we also need to form relationships with groups like Big Reuse, which is a nonprofit retail store and donation center. And then they can commit to receiving and reusing those materials. But yeah, it’s a lot of moving parts, but with a structured plan and proactive communication, it can be done.
Jennifer Taranto (12:27Go to https://www.temi.com/editor/t/G_csfCCgpvHlvEQWgbi4k8kQqsPrFV0iEpRLGtAr9FGatQUJUt2kH2FefW4b4vY0-20lHTVJ-dr7iOuKLbO5LN8p-WE?loadFrom=DocumentDeeplink):
And then moving backward even further, Tiffany, you’re also doing a lot of coordination with vendors and your sustainability consultants on your side in order to put as much of that information and some of those relationships into the spec. You want to talk a little bit about that?
Tiffany Williams (12:41Go to https://www.temi.com/editor/t/G_csfCCgpvHlvEQWgbi4k8kQqsPrFV0iEpRLGtAr9FGatQUJUt2kH2FefW4b4vY0-20lHTVJ-dr7iOuKLbO5LN8p-WE?loadFrom=DocumentDeeplink):
Yes. I think one thing that’s really important to kind of highlight are a lot of these manufacturers will have like recycling agreements, which are key. You know, they won’t take the material back without these agreements because those agreements are mostly like testaments from the owner’s side that the material is either safe or, you know, free of any type of harmful materials or anything like that. So that they have the assurance when they’re receiving that material back to their place, that it’s not them contaminating their essential sort of protocols and how they, you know, reuse, or reclaim those materials. So that’s big. And kind of speaking to that is oftentimes then, you know, in order for us as an organization to sign off on something like an agreement, we may have our own sort of legal process. And it really will depend on like how involved or how much information our legal team may need.
Tiffany Williams (13:33Go to https://www.temi.com/editor/t/G_csfCCgpvHlvEQWgbi4k8kQqsPrFV0iEpRLGtAr9FGatQUJUt2kH2FefW4b4vY0-20lHTVJ-dr7iOuKLbO5LN8p-WE?loadFrom=DocumentDeeplink):
Like any insurance that may be required of the vendor depending upon like how they want to actually access the site. Like do they need to do their own site walk and inspection? You know what level of insurance will they need for that? Or are they actually, you know, bringing a truck on site or are they doing like a curbside pickup? You know, depending on the level of involvement to actually take their material back will sort of trigger something different within like our legal process. And review an evaluation. And again, all of it comes down to signing off the recycling agreement. Because without that, there’s really no sort of green light to kind of continue with that process.
Jennifer Taranto (14:10Go to https://www.temi.com/editor/t/G_csfCCgpvHlvEQWgbi4k8kQqsPrFV0iEpRLGtAr9FGatQUJUt2kH2FefW4b4vY0-20lHTVJ-dr7iOuKLbO5LN8p-WE?loadFrom=DocumentDeeplink):
Yeah, I mean, I can see that this process and it’s been my experience as well, is there’s so many more vendors involved really from start to finish. Because you know, we alluded to before, some of the reuse centers can only take so much of the materials because they don’t have endless supplies of storage. And they want to make sure that they’re also giving things that they’re going to be able to resell. And so you know, you may find that you end up sort of piecemealing things a little bit more than you would otherwise in order to get them out of the building. So yeah, so all of that makes a ton of sense. Ryan, I think the other question that I get from a lot of people is about incentives. Does the city have incentives for deconstruction or demolition? And then, you know, if those do exist, how does that impact decision making?
Hmm. Well there’s, to my knowledge, there’s no citywide mandate yet, but clients, again, are asking for this. So there’s tax benefits and sustainability goals, brand value, those are all drivers. But my, in my opinion, the biggest driver or as far as incentive, is reputational. So clients want to show that they’re really building responsibly, deconstruction makes for a strong story, especially on projects targeting lead well or other ESG benchmarks. But yeah, we’ve had clients choose deconstruction, not just because they had to, but because they saw it as part of their values. And again, there’s a great story to tell. So in this market, showing you build responsibly is the incentive.
Jennifer Taranto (15:51Go to https://www.temi.com/editor/t/G_csfCCgpvHlvEQWgbi4k8kQqsPrFV0iEpRLGtAr9FGatQUJUt2kH2FefW4b4vY0-20lHTVJ-dr7iOuKLbO5LN8p-WE?loadFrom=DocumentDeeplink):
And the other thing that I would add to that for anybody who likes to geek out on greenhouse gas emissions, right? Waste is one of the categories in scope three emissions and scope three emissions are by far like the biggest bucket for any organization’s emissions. So where you can look to reduce, I think it is a big benefit as you pointed out for anybody who has those kind of ESG metrics. And speaking of metrics, Tiffany, how is Rudin approaching circularity and reuse goals and like the big picture sense and what is really driving, I think, you know, as an end user, I’m really curious, I think other people listening will be curious like what is driving your interest in this? And then what do you think is holding others back?
Tiffany Williams (16:43Go to https://www.temi.com/editor/t/G_csfCCgpvHlvEQWgbi4k8kQqsPrFV0iEpRLGtAr9FGatQUJUt2kH2FefW4b4vY0-20lHTVJ-dr7iOuKLbO5LN8p-WE?loadFrom=DocumentDeeplink):
Yes, great question. So, you know, we are fortunate where we have a lot of great support from our ownership because they see the value in reuse and recycling. And for them, this was almost a no brainer. So really just trying to understand like, how can you package, like how can deconstruction really push us towards our goal of like circularity and reuse? So we’re really trying to use this as like a learning process. We don’t have set goals to date, but we want to use this information to understand like the process. We want to use this as like our benchmarking tool to understand what’s really feasible and how do you track outcomes from projects such as this so that we can set like more informed goals for the organization and really be able to measure like the benefits of doing something such as like this, like a process such as this, and as involved as it can be.
Tiffany Williams (17:36Go to https://www.temi.com/editor/t/G_csfCCgpvHlvEQWgbi4k8kQqsPrFV0iEpRLGtAr9FGatQUJUt2kH2FefW4b4vY0-20lHTVJ-dr7iOuKLbO5LN8p-WE?loadFrom=DocumentDeeplink):
So we, you know, our interests are like really being propelled by the growing recognition of this value in material circularity. By using this data and stuff there we do see like there’s a great path forward, but of course there are some key hurdles that have been slowing the process down for us, especially with like the smaller projects. Like one of the biggest one is like integrating circularity into like tight project schedules. So, you know, we have a little bit of luxury of time with these larger projects that we’re coordinating, like the one with PMG or Pavarini, excuse me. But for others that are small, like smaller fit out projects that we could do when tenants turn over and we want to reuse this or reclaim that space, it could be a bit of a challenge to try to have all of like first the site walk and then to get all your agreements in place and to make sure that the proper insurance is on file to really establish that relationship.
Tiffany Williams (18:34Go to https://www.temi.com/editor/t/G_csfCCgpvHlvEQWgbi4k8kQqsPrFV0iEpRLGtAr9FGatQUJUt2kH2FefW4b4vY0-20lHTVJ-dr7iOuKLbO5LN8p-WE?loadFrom=DocumentDeeplink):
But then on top of that, just the legal process, sometimes it’s just not as amenable as you would hope because it’s, you know, when you are working with a vendor, it’s like who do you sort of hold that relationship with? Is it the demo sub or even the CM that’s overseeing the project? Are they the ones that would sort of hold that insurance and liability or is it the owner? And you know, oftentimes when it’s the owner, it’s, we’re a bit more cautious and skeptical about entering into agreements that we’re not as familiar with. We want to make sure we’re just as protected as the vendor is. But of course, you know, the one question that a lot of vendors will have are with like hazardous materials and it’s like, how do you really handle a situation such as that? Like, is there opportunity for abatements?
Tiffany Williams (19:19Go to https://www.temi.com/editor/t/G_csfCCgpvHlvEQWgbi4k8kQqsPrFV0iEpRLGtAr9FGatQUJUt2kH2FefW4b4vY0-20lHTVJ-dr7iOuKLbO5LN8p-WE?loadFrom=DocumentDeeplink):
Does that happen onsite or offsite? Does adding those extra logistics in there help to fuss the sort of story of your circularity, I guess your deconstruction effort, you know, having to transport materials to one location to be abated and then another location to be recycled. Like how does that all fit together? So it’s, we’ve had a lot of questions around like what’s really value add to the project by doing specific activities such as that. And then another sort of layer on top of that are like logistical complexities. So, you know, one building with our portfolio has great voting dock access versus others we don’t quite have the same luxury and understanding like how do we, you know, get a truck into the space or how do we get a truck close enough? Or even for some vendors that we work with, they want like a twenty yarder that either sits on the street or in our loading dock, but we don’t have the space for that.
Tiffany Williams (20:16Go to https://www.temi.com/editor/t/G_csfCCgpvHlvEQWgbi4k8kQqsPrFV0iEpRLGtAr9FGatQUJUt2kH2FefW4b4vY0-20lHTVJ-dr7iOuKLbO5LN8p-WE?loadFrom=DocumentDeeplink):
So it’s really trying to create the relationship with the vendor to either find a better means and methods for their own sort of procurement and taking back of the material and then working within our own sort of constraints. Logistically speaking with our sites have been, some of the biggest challenges I have had are like the different layers of risk and uncertainty when it comes to deconstruction program. But ultimately, you know, we really believe that as like more policy aligns with the goals and as we educate whether or not it’s the demo team and, you know, bake something into like the specifications that really helps to leverage these different programs and we know that we can actually move in the right direction.
Jennifer Taranto (21:02Go to https://www.temi.com/editor/t/G_csfCCgpvHlvEQWgbi4k8kQqsPrFV0iEpRLGtAr9FGatQUJUt2kH2FefW4b4vY0-20lHTVJ-dr7iOuKLbO5LN8p-WE?loadFrom=DocumentDeeplink):
Something you said triggered an another question for me, which was related to some of these smaller tenant spaces. And I’m curious if you see opportunities or if you maybe even you’ve started to do this already, to not necessarily demo the space when the previous tenant moves out to walk a new potential tenant through an existing space in order to give them the opportunity to maybe maintain some of that space as their new space. Do you see a time where that shift occurs? Or maybe you’ve already seen a case where that something like that has happened?
Tiffany Williams (21:38Go to https://www.temi.com/editor/t/G_csfCCgpvHlvEQWgbi4k8kQqsPrFV0iEpRLGtAr9FGatQUJUt2kH2FefW4b4vY0-20lHTVJ-dr7iOuKLbO5LN8p-WE?loadFrom=DocumentDeeplink):
Yeah, we have, but that’s actually an interesting thought. Currently how, you know, our leasing team would like to just have them view a white box, but, you know, maybe there is opportunity for us to have that conversation with them saying, you know, look, there could be potential for them to reuse some of the stuff in this space currently before we do any demo. I do know that sometimes like our existing tenants may just want to grow into more space that may be like a I guess, more fluid opportunity to be able to show them like: “Hey, this is what the space currently looks like. Is there anything here you may want to reuse before we, or you renovate that space to your current needs?” So I definitely feel like there’s some great opportunity there and that’s something that we’d love to coordinate internally with our team at Rudin.
Jennifer Taranto (22:27Go to https://www.temi.com/editor/t/G_csfCCgpvHlvEQWgbi4k8kQqsPrFV0iEpRLGtAr9FGatQUJUt2kH2FefW4b4vY0-20lHTVJ-dr7iOuKLbO5LN8p-WE?loadFrom=DocumentDeeplink):
Yeah, I think that there’s potential for a shift in the way that we’re sort of currently doing business as usual around some of that stuff, which has some really, really good high potential. And sort of as we’re sort thinking in a forward looking way about the future, I’m going to ask each from your perspectives, what needs to happen next to make material circularity more widespread in New York City construction? Ryan, you want to take the first crack?
Sure. I think you just mentioned it there. First, we need support infrastructure and education. So first clear standards and incentives from the city really to help normalize deconstruction. We can look at cities like Portland and maybe San Antonio, which already have deconstruction ordinances in place. But yeah, if New York City wants to lead, we need more pilot programs, we need mandates, but I’d say second, we need more local warehouses and we touched on that or marketplaces to process and resell these salvage materials. And then lastly, third is the education piece. As I said, it’s really educating the full project team from the developers to the subcontractors, really on how reuse fits into their workflow, right? So when everyone’s aligned on that, on the why and the how, circularity can become a realistic goal, not just an aspiration. I’d say.
Jennifer Taranto (23:44Go to https://www.temi.com/editor/t/G_csfCCgpvHlvEQWgbi4k8kQqsPrFV0iEpRLGtAr9FGatQUJUt2kH2FefW4b4vY0-20lHTVJ-dr7iOuKLbO5LN8p-WE?loadFrom=DocumentDeeplink):
Yeah, Tiffany, your thoughts?
Tiffany Williams (23:45Go to https://www.temi.com/editor/t/G_csfCCgpvHlvEQWgbi4k8kQqsPrFV0iEpRLGtAr9FGatQUJUt2kH2FefW4b4vY0-20lHTVJ-dr7iOuKLbO5LN8p-WE?loadFrom=DocumentDeeplink):
Yeah, no, a hundred percent in alignment with all of that, you know, getting the education out there to them, whether you having like the spec sort of like a standard spec, I guess you would say for demolition or deconstruction for demolition. And then also working with vendors and partners was to create a bit more flexibility with their current needs and methods of how they can receive material or, you know, how material should be processed or provided back to them, I think would be tremendous. And then partnering with other organizations, I feel when you kind of do things in a silo by yourself, you encounter more challenges, but as you have more partners, maybe there’s opportunity to do like a sort of like a joint venture or something like that, like a joint pick up where everyone’s delivering or picking up on a specific schedule. And then maybe they can use, like, to Ryan’s point, a transferring facility where things are housed and or kept until defenders can actually go and pick up. I think that will be tremendous for the success.
Jennifer Taranto (24:48Go to https://www.temi.com/editor/t/G_csfCCgpvHlvEQWgbi4k8kQqsPrFV0iEpRLGtAr9FGatQUJUt2kH2FefW4b4vY0-20lHTVJ-dr7iOuKLbO5LN8p-WE?loadFrom=DocumentDeeplink):
Yeah. Well I think you guys have both outlined what seems to be a fabulous future and I’m happy to be partnering with Rudin on their objectives and goals. And I think that you’re absolutely right. We need more collaborators. We need more people all in to put some pressure on the system and create a new process that works for everyone. So thank you both for joining me today and having this conversation. I really appreciate it. Yeah, thank you. T
Thanks so much.